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Getting down to the nitty gritty
Lets talk about fat hygiene. Embarrassing, right? I know! These are the kinds of topics that we like to keep private. Especially us fat folks who have learned to be ashamed of our bodies and the extra care they may require. But if we don’t talk about this and share our resources, how will we ever know what works best?
No more suffering in silence babes. I’ve been scoping out some hygiene products that my fat friends swear by. Here’s a list of must haves for fat hygiene:
Remedy Soap
Skin irritation caused by folds on our bodies is a total bitch. It can be itchy, odorous, and look sorta funny. Remedy Anti-Fungal Soap is made with natural ingredients like tea tree oil, mint, and Aloe Vera which work wonders for healing skin. You don’t have to worry about synthetic chemicals and such, so feel free to use this regularly on your whole body. Side note – if you’re not into feeling like you have a York Peppermint Patty lodged between your vulva (or other sensitive areas), perhaps avoid using this all up in your nether region.
Bathroom Hardware
Detachable shower heads are so great. Its important to be able to lift those rolls and scrub that body clean without leftover soap remnants which can cause skin irritation. Sick of cupping your hands and aimlessly splashing water in the general direction of your sweatiest parts? Wash it all away with full force and direct precision. You’re going to feel the cleanest you’ve ever felt.
I can’t describe how wonderful it felt to finally have a shower with a curved shower rod installed in my home. It can be so frustrating to have the shower curtain constantly stuck to your arms and body the whole time, in the most vulnerable moments! Having one of these curved shower rods makes my shower experience feel so much more comfortable. It can add up to 6 inches of room!
This one might not seem as obvious but I swear by it. A corner shower caddy helps organize all of the shit you like to clean yourself with into one space. Why is this helpful? Well if you’re like me and enjoy having options for shower products, you might notice them all piling up on the wall of the tub after a while. I dread those bottles toppling onto my toes because I just needed to lift my leg over the tub wall for a moment. Corner shower caddies really help organize an area where any extra space is a blessing.
Apparently, bidet attachments are all the rage. I’ve heard numerous people now tell me that bidet attachments are the best additions they’ve made to their bathrooms. This product can turn any standard two piece toilet into having a functional bidet. To get that extra clean feel and spend less on toilet paper every month, try out one of these bad boys.
Wipes
Sometimes its hard to reach! Bathroom wipes are getting increasingly popular in all kinds of households. You’re going to want something biodegradable and safe for septic systems. I find that Dude Wipes work the best for me and my fat ass. They’re fragrance free so I feel comfortable using them all over my body when I need to freshen up real quick. They’re also bigger in size which I find helpful. So, if you can move past the overt toxic masculinity involved in the marketing, they work really well.
Long Handled Products
Listen, no doubt our fat bodies are bigger than thin bodies. If you’re like me and that also happens to be paired with a couple of short arms, it can be difficult to reach areas that we would like to give an extra scrub. Thankfully you can find all kinds of long handled products on Amazon like loofah’s, sponges, toe nail scissors, and even razor extension handles.
Foot Scrubber
This hands free foot scrubber allows you to exfoliate your feet in the shower. It increases blood circulation and helps massage your feet which can feel really great after a long day on your tootsies. Toss some body wash in there to feel extra clean!
Crystal Essence
Deodorant creates a barrier of film that seems to stop sweat from festering on your skin within the folds. Lift your rolls up and rub that shit right on in there. Try Crystal Essence if you’re concerned about putting products with aluminum under your belly and breasts. It’s natural, comes in various scents or fragrance free, and has a roll-on option which I highly suggest for easier accessibility to those hard to reach areas.
Crystal Essence also has a spray on version! This is excellent if you’re like me and feel a little bit weird about sharing deodorant with partners. Plus, it makes it even easier to reach those harder to access areas.
USB Phone Fan
Look at these cute little guys! These USB powered fans plug directly into your phone and run off of your phone battery. Feeling sweaty in a super inconvenient kinda way? Plug this baby right in and start cooling down. Its great because you totally have your phone on you at all times anyway.
Liners
These bra liners are genius! The boob sweat situation is real my friends. Tuck these under your bra on those potentially extra sweaty days. They’re machine washable! They also have disposable ones if you’re more into that sort of thing.
And guess what? They also have tummy liners for us folks who have rolls that tend to get irritated in the hot weather. Say goodbye to skin irritation and rashes this summer!
This list was updated March 2018. Didn’t see your favorite fat hygiene product listed? What do you use that keeps you feeling fresh?
96 Comments
Dr. Bronner’s mint soap is a fattie’s best bud in hot weather. Cools and de- funks. Used by my fat father and passed down to me. Also good label reading before the days of putting a smart phone in a ziploc in the shower. Love ya!
YES I can’t wait to try it out as the weather gets warmer. I’ve been using it consistently for a couple weeks now and I am really pleased!
Careful about Dr. Bonners! I know it sounds weird, but it actually has a high PH and can cause dryness and yeast infections.
I love these suggestions!!! And I have had a detachable shower for years! Not only does it get to all of your nether regions, it makes cleaning the shower easier as well!!
Hahah that is such a good point, it does make cleaning easier!
I have had a hand-held shower head for years and years. When I’m somewhere that doesn’t offer one, I don’t know what to do! A MUST in my book.
I can not tell you how much I needed this site. Already you have helped me feel like I’m allowed to have a good quality life even with being fat. So thank you for your work and I hope you keep going!
Oh gosh. You absolutely deserve a good quality of life while being a fat person! Thank you so much for sharing this with me and the support, it makes me feel so good to know this blog is impactful!
I have recently realized just exactly that and it only took me 49 years to get to the point where I don’t feel too ashamed to take the extra prep time I need after a shower! It’s a shame that any other issue folks have is a faultless one (alcoholism, drug addiction, anger management issue, etc.) and they receive love and support. Obesity however is a shaming issue that is at all costs to be blames solely on the individual. It is so very prevalent in the medical field where it can do the most harm and where most doctors only have a nod and a wink with any ways to manage issues that come up with us fat people. We are made to feel almost criminal for asking very necessary questions about prevention of rashes, odors, and so forth. I am now working to be sure my 30 year old daughter learns that she too has a right to live, love, laugh, and take care of herself without condemnation or shame! Thanks so much for this site! I am so very stoked to have come across it!
Believe me! This blog is impactful! Being obese all of my life, I have always struggled with self worth and self confidence. I have always been the only obese person in any group including my own family. It is so lonely and to find this blog and see people talking freely about there struggles is so comforting. And to find answer and ideas to problems I have struggled with all of my life is such a relief. Thank you so much! Do you have a Facebook page?
This may be a bit of TMI but I am super embarrassed about how I sometimes smell downtown if you know what I mean, if I sweat to much during the day I seem to have a not so nice odor in that region and yes I shower every single morning. What will help with this? I’ve tried summer’s eve cleansing wash. Ty!! ❤️❤️
Thats a totally normal experience! Have you tried freshening up with unscented wipes? Ive heard that using too many scented products can mess up your bodys natural PH regulation and makes it feel like you need freshening more often. Id try unscented and natural products for a bit!
After you shower try applying Vagisil powder under your skin folds. I have been using it for years, works well for me.
Having a bidet attachment has helped me enormously with this issue. It no longer is one, tbh.
My mother taught me a trick. I would shower really well and still stink in several places. Under my boobs, under my arms, under my fat belly, and down there. The odor wasn’t like a stinky vagina odor, they all had the same smell. It was due to me being fat and sweating a lot. No matter how much I washed and scrubbed and all with several different types of soaps, body wash’s and anti bacterial soaps and body wash too. Still had the stinky smell. So, my mother told me to get a spray bottle and fill it with Apple cider vinegar. I used it straight, but some add water to it. Anyway, when you first get in the shower, spray all the areas that stink by the end of the day, or in my case, immediately after. Let the vinegar stay there for 5-10 minutes. That is when I washed my hair, shave my legs, or just sit there on my shower stool and wait. Once the time is up, rinse the vinegar off and proceed to wash as usual. The vinegar will balance the pH levels and kill the bacteria that grows with the sweat. When you get finished washing and are ready to get out, rinse off again with very cool water. That closes your pores. Hope this helps. It has helped me tremendously.
That is a great idea, thank you for sharing…
Deodorant! Rub it on your hand and smooth around down south.
Body Glide is great for chafing … under breasts, under belly. The original is best.
Such a great resource! Thanks for sharing 🙂
Google bendable back scratcher. Excellent investment, it lasts and actually gets “the spot”.
And “freedomwand personal hygiene aid”. This is with the caveat that it doesn’t work well with toilet paper but excellent with cottonelle or the like.
Both tried and true by me for years.
Those look like awesome products! Thanks for sharing!
An anti-fungal powder without menthol works on sweaty rashes under folds too!
Without menthol is a good idea. I know Ive personally been turned off by the menthol products because it feels way too strong and can even hurt.
Yes, I swear by Zeasorb, it works great! It’s super absorbent and antifungal.
I’m a fan of the crystal spray deodorant instead of the roll on version. It is easy to use and you can share it with your partner without worrying about hygiene issues.
https://www.amazon.com/CRYSTAL-BODY-DEODORANT-Spray-Unscented/dp/B001ET7644?th=1
Awesome! Thanks for sharing!
I have a bidet attachment on my toilet and it is amazing. I use the $60 version from tushy.me
I have been using portable bidets attached to my toilet. I highly recommend them. The are fairly easy to install and mine have lasted on average about 5 years each
Please never flush any wipes! Even if they say flushable they are better thrown away in the trash.
First thank you, thank you, thank you! Love your blog. This is going to sound weird, but it totally works great. After showering I use a thin layer of bag balm under my breasts and in particularly rash prone areas. Works great as a barrier particularly in the summer.
That’s not weird at all! Thanks for reading and sharing your fat hygiene tips. We all gotta share our resources and spread the word!
I love all of these ideas! I also love those shower curtain rods that curve, they make showering so much more comfortable without the curtain rubbing all up on me.
Oh yeah! Those are awesome, thanks for sharing 🙂
My stomach is probably the biggest part of my body, I’m about 280 lbs I’m not super big or anything but my stomach does hang quiet a bit and as a result of this my skin fold (under my stomach) is always red and itchy and (I no everyone hates this word lol) moist. I was itching it the other day and it has been lightly bleeding since. I’m afraid it could get infected. I bought gold bond medicated body powder to put on the skin fold to see if that helps me, do you have an advice for this? Thank you !!
Hi! Yes try the tummy liners listed in the article. Or the crystal essence deodorant in your folds under the belly, thats what works for me!
After my csection I was so worried the constantly moist environment of my belly food was going to cause infection. I actually was told in hospital to put a pad there and it would keep things dry. It was amazing. You can use the liners they lists or just your regular pads. I usually use hydrogen peroxide or alcohol to clean and dry out the area, rub a ton of polysporin on it, then put the pad in there folded in half. The roll holds it in there perfectly. Just my two cents, hope you’re feeling better!!
You can also get a prescription for Nystan its really good for any kind of rash you get in your folds. Also to keep dry try Ammens Powder.
The bidets look very interesting but I was wondering if anyone has used them. It looks like the controls are close to the toilet. With a larger derriere size 28 it looks like the controls might be blocked. Anyone use them and have any info.
I was wondering the same thing – whether my butt would cover the controls. Also wondering how to dry oneself after using, toilet paper? would it shred?
Me too, same questions. Drip dry ain’t gonna work for me!
We have a Toto bidet and love it. It comes with a remote that hangs on the wall. Best investment we ever made.
I have a $40 range bidet attchment that i bought from amazon. And im in the 330lb range though large all over my main weight is belly so ymmv if your weight is mainly butt and thighs, while i have no prob reaching the controls and im not sitting on them, i have on occasion accidentally set it to on with my leg or side of my butt when moving, and was caught by surprise…best purchase ever as i have trouble reaching both from size and a dominant arm injury… As far as drying off, you could pat down with toilet paper or even a towel but i may be lazy and wear a pantyliner and that clears up any left over moisture
I don’t have any direct experience, but if you’re worried about sitting on the controls, maybe one of the handheld models is for you? They are like a spray hose attachment that you can hang wherever is comfortable.
My husband installed a portable bidet on out toilet just prior to my shoulder replacement surgery two years ago. I LOVE it and will have one the rest of my life! I’m 58, size 22/24 and there is not one thing I don’t love about my bidet. Wish I had it way earlier, prior to menopause, it would have been a lifesaver for menstrual stench and mess!
Thank you for this post! I added most of these items to my Amazon wishlist!
I hope I’m not the only one that deals with acne between my fat sweaty thighs and underarms. What works for me is using a wonder puff to scrub neutrogena’s grapefruit acne wash on my skin. After drying, I use a cotton ball to apply witch hazel.
I have the same problem!! No one ever talks about that part of being fat, and it”s led to a lot of anxiety and insecurity for me. I use Olay moisturizing body wash and that usually helps with the rashes we all get–and it can help keep the underarm and thigh acne at bay a bit–but once that acne gets going, it just keeps going. I’ve found that hot cloths can help bring it down, but also sometimes they burst and leave holes, which is just not what you want going on under your arms.
I have super sensitive skin and have found that diaper cream products are the best – they usually have aloe or Vitamin E too, so they will help clear up existing rashes and then will help block moisture to keep them from cropping up. They also offer a bit of lubricant against chub rub if you can’t keep skin from rubbing on skin.
HI. Don’t know if you will see this as your post is a few years old but if you have actual holes in your arm pits you may want to get checked out for HS or hydradenitis suporativa. My mom has it and it can be really painful. It’s a chronic condition and they don’t know what causes it but early treatment is better from what I’ve read.
Thanks for the sensible critique. Me and my neighbor were just preparing to
do a little research about this. We got a grab a book from our local
library but I think I learned more from tbis post. I am very glad to
see such great information being shared freely
out there.
Thats wonderful! Glad to help!
A couple of other tips:
Dr. Scholl’s spray – Spray the under-boobs, and anywhere else you sweat (my husband calls it “ball spray”), and you don’t get the sweat/rash we all know and love.
Glycerine Soap – If you suffer from bacne, etc. It seems to clear up the skin better than ‘creamy or deodorant’ soaps.
Excellent additions! Thanks for sharing.
Monistat anti-chafing powder gel is great for just general chafing, especially while exercising. I have huge boobs so put it under my arms and boobs and it helps prevent irritation from my underwire bras!
I use this under my breasts and tummy fold over and it keeps things dry and prevents chafing. It is not medicated, has no scent, and does not bother my sensitive skin.
Me too monostat anti-chafing gel is my go to!
When you’ve been sweating in your creases and you end up with the sore, itchy rash try Clotrimazole anti-fungal cream. A common brand is Lotrimin, but I usually just use generic. Usually clears it up in a day or two.
When my skin has been itchy & unhappy, calamine soap has been wonderful. I’m sure there are others, but I got this one: https://www.lushusa.com/face/cleansers/fresh-farmacy/00077.html
As for the under tummy fold and resulting irritation and moistness, way back after a c-section, my ob/gyn told me I could invest in expensive creams and powders or I could wash daily and then fold an overnight feminine pad (or two bc of length) in half, long ways, sticmy sides together, and allow that to soak up any moisture that may be produced from the wound site. I use this trick today for humid days or when I notice things are getting bad and I need the skin breakdown to take a break.
I had two c-sections and have used FDS spray under my fold for years. Now finding it isn’t working as well. Will try he pads and see if it helps.
This non-exhaustive list is super helpful for people who have little/no fat community to pool resources from so thanks for posting.
My partner and I are both larger-than-life people and he is particularly stringent about being clean. A non-moveable shower head is an absolute no for us as he showers every time he uses the bathroom to feel clean. I will attempt to convince him we should try a bidet attachment asap.
He also gets some fungal patches in between his folds so I may have to try and source some Remedy Soap in the UK.
Thanks again!
I’ve become a true believer in the Ta-Ta Towel! Light support and no more boob sweat while I’m home relaxing. They’re made up to a J cup size and they now have a maternity version. It’s soooooo comfy!
These are amazing and OS helpful! Thank you!
Ok so here’s a question you might have some leads on. Does anyone make maxi pads that are longer? Our whole bodies are bigger, and I find that even with overnight maxi pads I leak out the ends more than the center. I use them as backup for a cup but with PCOS super heavy flow I need the pad to work for real. Or, are there some fatty reviews for period underwear that comes in our sizes? I’ve heard that for some of them their liners only go as far up in front and back as regular pads.
I’m not certain on pads, but I’ve been told that whatever they use as an absorbent in the period panties tends degrade and smell after a time – they told my friend that she should just replace them after a year of use because there was no way to stop it from happening. Seems like an expensive product to just throw away.
You can buy reusable cloth pads cheap on Ebay, the largest size available is 35 cm (or just over 13,5 inches) and I think that’s longer than your average maxi pad. I have been using cloth pads for a while and since they’re usually quite expensive I thought it was worth trying these out even if I didn’t have very high expectations for them. Surprisingly they actually turned out to be a lot better than my old ones, they are more absorbent and combined with the larger size that means they can handle a much heavier flow without leaking. They also come in a lot of different colours and patterns which I appreciate. Be warned that the leopard print (and possibly the other animal prints) fabric is some sort of fake fur though, in case that’s not your thing.
If you’re ok with the longer delivery time you can get free shipping as well.
Prevail pads…I know they are for wee leakage…but they come in a great variety of sizes and lengths. I could even use them as stand alone coverage on heavy flooding overnights!
I use bladder pads either by Tena or Poise. The backs fan out and have great coverage. I get the overnight ones.
Wow that was unusual. I just wrote an incredibly long comment but after I clicked submit my comment didn’t appear. Grrrr… well I’m not writing all that over again. Anyways, just wanted to say wonderful blog!
I haven’t seen anyone recommend InterDry fabric with silver. A wound care nurse suggested this to me once, and it’s amazing how it helps. It’s silver-impregnated fabric that inhibits fungus and bacterial growth. You cut a piece and put it in the folds affected. It’s not an instantaneous cure, but when you give it a bit of time it’s amazingly effective. You can find it online at http://www.inter-dry.com or at 1-855-440-4700. Not cheap but worth every penny.
As a large lady with skin sensitivity issues changing from store bought pads to washable mentrual pads has made an enormous change in my comfort level. I no longer get boils in my lady bits from irritation and increased heat and my thighs aren’t rubbed raw anymore. Massive difference in heat during the summer. Also if things do get out of control and I get a heat rash I use Peneten Zinc diaper rash cream. I apply baby powder to my folds lightly everyday and I personally feel cleaner and dryer. I hate the feel of creams in there
I’m fat and have severe chronic pain and I had never seen a hands-free foot scrubber before, but now I really want one!
Also want to add my own tip for people in Canada – I’ve heard so many good things about Monistat chafing gel but haven’t been able to find any sellers that ship it here. So instead I use Maybelline Baby Skin Instant Pore Eraser – it’s sold as a primer, but it’s basically just silicone gel and works really well against chafing/boils. Plus it has no smell (like, actually no smell, not just “fragrance free”) and isn’t super expensive. Seeing this article made me realize I hadn’t applied it today and was chafing, so my thighs thank you.
I use coconut oil with lavender essential oil. Works great.
Anyone have any suggestions for skin tags between the thighs, I am a guy and get them and they hurt and sometimes bleed. I have tried longer athletic undergarments and they would pretty well, just harder to find in larger sizes. I tried large stick-on bandages, spray adhesives and even duck tape and they just don’t work. I saw a runway show for plus sized women and one of them was wearing an anti chaff band I have been trying to find them but they only ones I have found are lacey, but I am willing to try anything at the moment.
this is rough! i don’t personally know what works best other than having them removed by the doctor. they can numb the area and remove them fairly quickly. that might be a route to try if you’re looking to get rid of them.
Caesar- you are talking about bandalettes for thigh chafing. I have used these tube tops as thigh bands. See measurements for the right size of your thighs. Works great, cheaper and stays up well.
https://www.amazon.com/Womens-Strapless-Seamless-Active-Bandeau/dp/B07BKRJ31W
I use Lotrimin powder in folds and pits. It’s an anti fungal (marketed for foot fungus). Works great to prevent irritation and rashes, keeps things dry, and unlike a lot of other products is scent free.
oh thats awesome! i’m always happy to hear about scent free products. thank you!
Awesome tips! My Amazon cart is now full with the wonderful goodies you have all suggested! I’m very excited about the Boob and Belly liners. I too suffer from moisture in the folds and odor. It’s embarrassing! And I know too well of menstrual leakage, even though wear the overnight with wings pads for 10hrs-lge pad. It’s horrible! Every month, I can count on having accidents at work. I now keep a towel at work so I don’t mess up my chair. I have also wondered if panty briefs for menstruation for plus sized women exist, like incontinence briefs. Anyway, I’m glad I stumbled upon this Blog! What an awesome read!!!!
Hi. I am a heavy bleeder too and pads always leak. Even tried tampons and pads together which still didn’t work. I finally went to my gyno and had an IUD put in. Wish I’d found this years ago. No periods at all now. Just occasional spotting, usually when I am stressed out. I am going through the change so not concerned with having kids. Had IUD put in when 49. But it might be a viable solution for some people so thought I’d suggest it. Great site.
I tried for months to clear up the rash under my belly. Nothing worked until I used products with Miconazole Nitrate 2% (Lotrimin, Desenex). Powders work best for me since they absorb, the creams were just mushy.
Thank you so much for this. I am single excited about the shower curtain!!!!!
Try antifungal foot powder or spray for underarms, folds under abdomen, rashes in perineal area. Most of these are caused by yeast. Antifungal products kill both foot fungi and other fungi. I use products like this in the hospital for patients with these rashes. Hope this helps.
I use bladder pads either by Tena or Poise. The backs fan out and have great coverage. I get the overnight ones.
I always get big boils/pimple between my thighs where they rub. I always wear
Leggings or jeans, not too tight. Any suggestions?
do some research around “products to help with chub rub” that’s what people are calling it and i know tons of people are writing about it and sharing resources! i hope you find something that works for you!
For the UK fats, Neem Oil soap from Faith in Nature. It’s naturally anti-bacterial and got rid of roll rashes for me. Basically, it does the job of Tea Tree Oil soap but smells nicer – quite citrusy.
https://www.faithinnature.co.uk/products/neem-soap/finsoapneem1.aspx?productid=finsoapneem1
Thank you so much for this list! I’m planning to try the Remedy Soap since it’ll probably do wonders for my inner thighs during the warmer weather. I also plan to get some things with extended length handles as it’s getting increasingly difficult to was some parts. You’ve got yourself another follower in me!
Just wanted to say keep up the great work!| Greetings from Idaho!
thank you so much!
My favorite chub rub product is from lush, it’s called rump! I also love lush shampoo called rehab, I use it as a shower gel on the skin folds because it has peppermint and tea tree… Again don’t put it on your genitals… Also it’s a shampoo so it can be drying so use a body conditioner too. I then follow up with a lush dusting powder called silky underwear.
My dad, who is a big guy, is 82 and sweats a lot. He used to get red and raw under his arms and under his belly. I started using antiperspirant on him when he got his daily wash but sometimes it just turned into a huge mess since we could never get it under some spots and he was still raw after a day. So I tried baby powder, but it would become muddy and gross if it was a particularly hot day.
I’ve since started using the antiperspirant first and then applying cornstarch over it with a big makeup brush and what a difference it made! Sometimes I don’t even apply the antiperspirant and just use the cornstarch and it still works.
I used to use baby powder in my nether regions but learned that you shouldn’t so I started with the cornstarch there too. It works like a charm!
Anyone know of a detachable shower head that has an extra long handle?
Suggestions about shaving down there?
Summers Eve sells a body powder that has been the only thing I’ve ever tried to protect from chafing. And I’ve tried a lot. Im from Canada though so maybe some products just aren’t available here or something. Not sure. I’m sitting at like 370 but I’m quite tall and my weight is fairly evenly distributed so I tend to be more privileged because of my type of fat. The few things I have dealt with is some smells between rolls and down south. My go to for down south is the PH balancing vagasil, and we have a shower douche/bidet that has a hose and nozzle so that works really well. I also like it because I can more easily aim where I want to clean. Especially if you have a… deep? outer vagina area like me due to the weight, the hose works cause I got move some things around to get all clean. If you know what I mean 😉 just really important to remember to clean after every use!! I use a soapy water and a sensitive skin sex toy disinfectant to make sure nothing nasty starts to grow. Also side note, J thank you for everything you do! I’m a genderfluid fat babe and I don’t see a lot of other proud fat non binary people so it’s really great what you do for people by putting yourself out there!! ❤️
Hey, I’ve been using organic unscented baby wipes… is there anything specific that makes the Dude wipes better somehow? Or is it just your preferred?
Thanks so much for this! I’m new-ish to being fat and man there are so many things I have to figure out, especially given I’m also disabled and have limited mobility in my arms and legs. Showers are terribly painful so I rarely do, but for the first time in my life I’m sweating! Not a good combo.
Where can you buy the liners? A specific website or any ole CVS?